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To do A mindlessly; without paying much attention to A
Used to show action A that is not being done with a forceful sense of purpose or direction.
  1. To do A mindlessly; without paying much attention to A
    Used to show action A that is not being done with a forceful sense of purpose or direction.
  2. To state that person/place/time A tied to an action is not known
    Used to state an action without specifying who did it, when it was, where it occurred, etc.
12
母 と 話 す とも 無 く 話 し て 居 た ら 、 涙 が 出 て き た 。 
Talking to my mother without thinking too much about it, I began to cry (tears started to come out).
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12
歩 く とも 無 く ぶ ら ぶ ら と 歩 い て 居 た ら 、 美 し い 公 園 に たどり 着 い た 。 
Strolling about, I happened upon a beautiful park.
0
1
寂 し い 夜 は 、 電 話 が 掛 か っ て く る の を 待 つ とも 無 し に 待 っ て 居 る 。 
On lonely nights, I unintentionally wait around for a phone call to come.
0

Getting the sentences
Construction
(Elements in parentheses are optional.)
AVerb: Dictionary Form と も なく
 
AVerb: Dictionary Form と も なし に
 
 
BVerb
Basic Examples:
見るとも無く (without meaning to watch)

Why two verbs?
The verbs A and B are usually the same verb or two verbs with similar meanings.
Basic Examples
見るともなく見つめる
考えるともなく思う
聴くともなく聴いていたら
ともなく vs. ともなしに
While this expression as a whole is rather rare, ともなしに is even more so, typically found in writing.
Where this grammar is found


Grammar usage notes

Act with no particular purpose or intent in mind. Verbs of same type of action precede and follow, such as 見る、 言う、 聴く、 考える、 etc. Often used when unconsciously doing something and an unexpected event occurs.
8
0
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まことまじま
Level: 516
Aしようと意識しないで、Bする
Aには「見る・聞く・考える・待つ・覚える」など限られた意志動詞しか使えない。
AとBは、同じ動詞、または似ている意味の動詞を使ことが多い。(例:見る・眺める)
5
0
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とくむ
Level: 248

Questions/Discussion

Nothing posted yet!
 
To state that person/place/time A tied to an action is not known
Used to state an action without specifying who did it, when it was, where it occurred, etc.
  1. To do A mindlessly; without paying much attention to A
    Used to show action A that is not being done with a forceful sense of purpose or direction.
  2. To state that person/place/time A tied to an action is not known
    Used to state an action without specifying who did it, when it was, where it occurred, etc.
24
何処 か ら と も な く 音 楽 が 聞 こ え る 。 
I can hear music from somewhere.
0
15
何時 か ら とも 無 く 此処 は 人 気 の 観 光 地 に 成 っ た 。 
At some point, here (this area) became a popular sight-seeing spot.
0

Getting the sentences
Construction
(Elements in parentheses are optional.)
AQuestion word
ともなく
AQuestion word
ともなしに
What is a question word?
Since this expression is used to show an unknown person/place/time that is tied to an action, the question words どこ, いつ, だれ, etc. are typically combined with a particle in this construction.
Basic Examples
だれか
どこへ
いつから
どちらか
Where this grammar is found


Grammar usage notes

Nothing posted yet!

Questions/Discussion

Nothing posted yet!

Discussion about this grammar
This section has been archived, and no new posts can be added. Please use the discussion form(s) above.
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安努龍
Level: 4
Any relation here to ついに?
1
16 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
Howso? ついに is (as far as I know) used to mean 'finally'.
1
16 years ago
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安努龍
Level: 4
Hmmm...maybe drop the に then?
http://dev.jgram.org/pages/viewOne.php?tagE=tsui
0
16 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
Yea, looks pretty close to that one :)
0
16 years ago
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mysticfive
Level: 2449
this can also be used with question words ie どこへともなく,いつからともなく
2
15 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
Added, thanks!
0
15 years ago
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師匠
Level: 1
As someone said before, this phrase can attach to a question word (apparently cannot take any other pronouns or nouns). According to the grammar resource I'm using, it essentially means that the origin of or reason for something can't be clearly determined. I know that the usage is pointed out above (somewhat), but I feel like the distinction deserves a separate entry or additional clarification.
1
12 years ago
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Milkyway
Level: 1

Just a few things I thought might help clarify this point for anyone learning it.


The explanation of this point is confusing people, based on what I can see in the user sentences section. People seem to mistakenly believe you can use this like -ずに or なしに but you can't. ともなく is used to describe things you do by accident. For example, two people are chatting near you on the bus and without intending to you end up eavsdropping because they were loud and it was hard not to. It is also often used for an unexpeced outcome (wihtout meaning to, I overheard this conversation on the bus and realised they were talking about someone I knew. I was mindlessly watching TV when breaking news of an aeroplane crash came on). You cannot use it to mean "without doing x, I did y". "Without itending to" appears to be what's confusing people because it has two meanings in English: "with no specific intention, thoughtlessly, mindlessly, accidentally, without meaning to" and "without the intention of doing something specific". Only the first one applies here. People also seem to think that the presence of "without" means you can say "he walked away, without looking back" which would actually use -ずに or まま. Changing the explanation might make it clearer.


Also, the explanation is not detailed enough. The verb that precedes ともなく and the verb that comes after must be the same (or have similar meaning like 見る and 眺める). I have noticed that the verb after ともなく often ends in たら (e.g. 聞いていたら), particularly when something unexpected happens. It is also often only used with specific verbs such as 見る or 聞く. These verbs are usually ones you can do both deliberately and without meaning to (I think we can agree you don't typically unintentionally run somewhere or unconsiously start cooking and realise that you have started to make a chicken stir-fry but you can just happen to see something while mindlessly staring out a window).


Below is a quote from どんな時どう使う日本語表現文型辞典 on how this point should be used [addition for clarity not found in the original]:

"Unconsciously; without paying attention... Act with no particular purpose or intent in mind. Verbs of same type of action precede and follow such as 見る、言う、聴く、考える、etc. Often used when uncounsciously doing something and an unexpected event occurs. Also used in idiomatic expressions as in [example] sentences 4 and 5." pg. 254


When used with a question word it takes on meanings like: I don't know when (it started), I don't know where (they are going but they left). These uses are often special idiomatic ones. 新完全マスター文法日本語能力試験N1 has this to say:

はっきり~と特定できない。pg.31

Given that this use is slightly different (it has it's own section in 新完全マスター文法日本語能力試験N1) and a slightly different meaning, perhaps the two structures should be listed separately on this page rather than as variations of the same thing. This has been previously suggested by 師匠.

4
9 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
Thanks so much! I've made a few changes to the structure of the page, and I would love your thoughts on the changes.
0
9 years ago
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Milkyway
Level: 1

Yep, this looks good to me (^-^)b.

0
9 years ago


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