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test
 


 
First A (is done, often in preparation), then B (as a result)
  1. First A (is done, often in preparation), then B (as a result)
  2. Indicates an important purpose/goal A
38
値 段 を 確 認 為 た 上 で 買 い ま す 。 
After I check on the price, I'll buy it.
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25
朝 食 を 食 べ て 歯 を 磨 い た 上 で 、 学 校 へ 行 く 。 
After I eat breakfast and brush my teeth, I go to school.
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28
先 生 は 作 文 を 二 回 読 ん だ 上 で 成 績 を 付 け る 。 
After the teacher reads the essay twice, he'll give it a grade.
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17
あ な た の 申 し 出 は 良 く 調 べ た 上 で 御 返 答 為 ま し ょ う 。 
I'll give you our answer after we go into your proposal in greater detail.
0
2
条 件 を 満 た し た 上 で 、 御 応 募 下 さ い 。 
Please enter after (when) you satisfy the requirements.
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0
全 て の 質 問 に 御 回 答 頂 い た 上 で 送 信 為 て 下 さ い 。 
Please send it after answering all of the questions.
0
2
実 際 に お 会 い し た 上 で 、 採 用 か ど う か を 決 定 し ま す 。 
After actually meeting them, we'll decide whether or not to employ them.
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Getting the sentences
Construction
(Elements in parentheses are optional.)
AVerb: Casual, past (た)
上で
BAction
Basic Examples:
着替えた上で (first (I'll) change clothes)

ANoun
の
上
で
Basic Examples:
準備の上で (after the preparation)

AVerb: Casual, past (た)
上
の
BNoun
CAction
Related Expressions
てから
Where this grammar is found


Grammar usage notes

"まず~してから"
単に「前件が起こる→後件が起こる」ではなく、前件は後件が起こるための前提条件であることを表す。
preceding event is a prerequisite for the subsequent event to occur
5
0
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デミフィ
Level: 1378
English counterpart: upon ~ ; after ~

Meaning/Function: a compound particle that is used to express a preparatory action for a relatively important action.

V(past) + 上で
Examples:
読んだ上で (upon reading)
研究した上で (upon conducting research)

N + の上で
Examples:
調査の上で (upon investigation)
討議の上で (upon discussion)

(DIJG p.547)
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0
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SkyLynx
Level: 157
Sau khi/Khi
1.『上で』ở cấu trúc 1 diễn tả ý: trước tiên phải tiến hành V (hoặc N) đã, rồi dựa trên kết quả đó mới làm hành động kế tiếp ở vế sau. "Sau khi..."
2.『上で』ở cấu trúc 2 diễn tả ý: khi làm V (hoặc N), thì điều được nêu ở vế sau là quan trọng, cần thiết, cần lưu ý, cần tránh hoặc khó tránh khỏi. "Khi..."
2
0
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zenios
Level: 103
機能:順番

形:Vた+上で__。

意味:(後で悪い結果にならないように、)__してから/した後で__。
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猛眼
Level: 1656
まず~して、それから…する
2
0
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リンク・リンク
Level: 1524
うえで あと**で**
うえは だか**ら**
うえに additionall**y**
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ディオ-果実
Level: 1014

Questions/Discussion

Nothing posted yet!
 
Indicates an important purpose/goal A
  1. First A (is done, often in preparation), then B (as a result)
  2. Indicates an important purpose/goal A
12
就 職 面 接 を 受 け る 上 で 履 歴 書 が 必 要 で す 。 
In order to undertake the job interviews, a resume is necessary.
0
6
一 年 間 留 学 す る 上 で 大 学 に 休 学 届 を 提 出 為 た 。 
Since I will be studying abroad for a year, I turned in my school absence notification.
0

Getting the sentences
Construction
(Elements in parentheses are optional.)
ANoun の
 
AVerb: Dictionary Form
 
 
上で
Basic Examples:
生活の上で (for one's livelihood)

Where this grammar is found


Grammar usage notes

The sentence that follows 上で does not have to be an action but, a statement like ”Doing such and such is useful/convenient/good" or "it is like the doctor/booklet/etc. instructions".
You cannot use 上で as ために.
6
0
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Shirubi
Level: 1
Similar to には
4
0
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Emanny
Level: 331
B -
〇 Aの時に必要、重要なこと
× 具体的な動作や行為


海外旅行をする上で、〇「気を付けることは何ですか」×「スーツケースを買いました」
6
0
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デミフィ
Level: 1378
文法:上で

機能:時(場面)

形:

1。V辞書+上で ~は___だ。

2。V辞書+上で 大切・必要な~は___だ。

意味:

1。___するときに ~は 大切だ・必要だ。

2。___するときに 大切だ・必要な~は___だ。

例文:

1。この学校では留学生が日本の学校に進学する上で必要な日本語を学ぶことができる。

2。受験校を決める上で重要なのは、自分が勉強したいことができるかどうかということだ。
1
0
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猛眼
Level: 1656
~の場合 (~のために)
...が大切/必要/注意すべき
1
0
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リンク・リンク
Level: 1524

Questions/Discussion

Nothing posted yet!

Discussion about this grammar
This section has been archived, and no new posts can be added. Please use the discussion form(s) above.
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暖
Level: 1
Does this require both sentences to have the same actor, or can the subject in A be different from the one in B?
0
17 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
From the non-technical explanation I received, it's the same actor.
0
17 years ago
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aileen
Level: 1
I couldn't find this with a kanji query in the search engine.
0
17 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
Yea - I'll repeat our conversation for others - the site will be updated soon so a to handle searching for grammar on both the kanji, hiragana, or a mix of both. Thanks for pointing it out.
0
17 years ago
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mireille
Level: 1
Update on the construction:

Noun + の +上で
‾上の + Noun

この資料は、十分な調査の上でまとめられた物だ。
これは、よくよく話し合った上の決定だから、簡単に変えるわけにはいかない。
0
17 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
Hmm - how would you suggest writing the definition for the second usage?
0
17 years ago
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mireille
Level: 1
The second example sentence has used that construction:

"...合った上の決定..."

(It's not te-form + 上で), so maybe something like

sentence + 上 + の + Noun + ActionB

Here are two more examples (taken from sentence library)

きまずいちんもくの後、ビルはかの女の手をとって上のかいへ引っぱって行った。
After an awkward pause, Bill took her by the hand and dragged her upstairs.

これはおそらくこせき上の出生年月日をしらべた上でしゅう正したのではないかと思います。
I believe this may be a correction after investigation of his date of birth in the family register.
0
17 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
The first example is using うえ to mean 'above', and the second one is the じょう form of it. I was looking more for a good way to describe the sentence + 上 + の + Noun + ActionB (although I bet it's always た form before the 上) in english, in the way that the current meaning is First A (is done), then B. I'll keep thinking on it. I have an idea, but the site currently (I need to fix this) doesn't have a way of writing out that construction pattern (it's a bit complex as to why).
0
17 years ago
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pentrixter
Level: 1
There seems to be a second meaning to the 上で construction. I am using the book, どんな時どう使う日本語表現文型500 to study for JLPT 1 and 2. The book's explanations are written in Japanese, so I look for help on the internet too. Apparently, 上で can also be used to indicate purpose too, much like ために or ように. There are nuances, of course, I just don't know what it is. The description given for ~上で is「~」という重要な目的を表す. Here are two examples sentences taken from the book:

1. テレビは外国語の勉強の上でかなり役に立ちます。
2. 今度の企画を成功させる上で、ぜひみんなの協力が必要なのだ。

Again, I have a good idea how 上で is used. But it would really be nice to know how it is different from all the other ways of saying, more or less, "for the purpose of."
4
16 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
(Apologies for the late response)

I've looked in a few books that I have, but haven't been able to find any definitions that match what you have. That's not to say I don't think it's correct, just that I haven't been able to find anything backing that up.

If you have some time, I'd recommend reposting it in the site's general forums, asking to see if anyone else knows about it (they're viewed more often than these are). If we can get some consensus then we can definitely add it to this page!
0
16 years ago
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Rinoninha
Level: 1
I agree with pentrixter! Today my Japanese teacher explained that meaning for 上で too and gave those same examples (I suppose she's using the same text book).
1
15 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
I will follow up on this with a Japanese 国語 teacher and see what they say.
0
15 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
Ok, checked. What we need to do before entering this into the dictionary is find/construct a specific list of forms that it can come in. So far (according to the examples), we have:

N + の上で
V-dictionary form + 上で

Are there any others?
0
15 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
Alright, verified everything with a professor and updated the page!
1
15 years ago
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Rinoninha
Level: 1
Thank you Michael!
0
15 years ago
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Shirubi
Level: 1
I just wanted to say that when 上で is used as ”in order to” the sentence that follows does not have to be an action but, a statement like ”Doing such and such is useful/convenient/good" or "it is like the doctor/bookclet/etc. instructions". You cannot use 上で as ために. I was taught this by my Japanese teacher. I am sorry I was not able to explain it better to you. I will list here some of the sentence posted by the other users which are correct: 民権の上で有権者権法は重要な一歩だった。 テレビは外国語の勉強の上でかなり役に立ちます。 I'm not sure about the one where つもり is used but I am sure these ones are corrected.
1
14 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
That seems to fit under the second definition 'Indicates an important purpose/goal A' - feel free to add your notes as a Usage Note if you'd like so it gets more exposure!
1
14 years ago
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Shirubi
Level: 1
Ok I will =) I hope these notes will help.
1
14 years ago
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Karlla
Level: 910
According to my teachers A + た上で + B means 'After making the necessary preparations (A) I'll decide what to do (B).' As a result B often includes the verb 決める or any other implied decision making. The construction, unlike ~てから, is not used for habitual actions.
The example sentence 「朝食を食べて歯を磨みがいた上で、学校へ行く。」sounds very much like habitual action. How does it fit into this construction?
0
8 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
I'm doing a bit of reading in the A Dictionary of Intermediate Grammar (wonderful), and it expands on what your teacher said, just a bit.

a - The second part does not need a decision to made, simply an action to follow the preparatory action. It does say that the main action is relatively important, but it doesn't have to be a decision.

So it gives two examples, one with is not ok, one which is. 

彼は必ず翌日の予定表を調べたうえで床につく。He always goes to bed after looking at the following day's schedule.
> This one IS valid, and also represents a habitual action. It shows the schedule check as being preparation for going to bed. (and therefore facing the new day).

彼は必ずシャワーを浴びたうえで寝る。 He always takes a shower before going to bed.
> This one is not valid, as it supposedly lacks the sense of preparation.

So it sounds like your teacher's explanation is a bit too restrictive, as it can certainly show an action that is not an outright decision. I would personally say (and I checked with someone else who said it was ok) that brushing your teeth so you don't have bad breath is considered preparation for going to a social gathering (school).

Hope this helps!
1
8 years ago
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Karlla
Level: 910
Thanks for the explanation. That helps.
Maybe my teacher was so restrictive, because that was the definition, we had to learn at that point. Teachers do not necessarily expand information beyond their schedule.^^

Yeah, I know this Grammar Dictionary is great. I have the basic version. Haven't got around to buying the intermediate and advanced ones, yet.
0
8 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
I definitely know that strategy. I often tell me students that this is the main definition, or this is the case 95% of the time, and that they only need to worry about this def now.
0
8 years ago


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