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This topic is tied to the below grammar expression in the grammar library.
ず に 
1. Without A..ing
ノ ッ ク を せ ず に 私 の 部屋 に 入 っ て く る な 。 
Don't come into my room without knocking.
Discussion & Notes (3)
Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese > Grammar Library Talk



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(deleted user)
Level: 1
I'm trying to refresh my memory without searching the grammar database but I'm drawing a blank. The verbal way to use this is....?? Like when speaking.
0
16 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
Maybe just ...‾ないで?, or are you looking for something more formal?
0
16 years ago
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(deleted user)
Level: 1
I was looking for something a little more formal, yes,^^;;
I always tend to feel like I'm being too informal.
0
16 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346
I'm pretty sure ずに would come across as formal in spoken language. Hmm..listening to the teachers around me, I will also hear (in speeches, whatever) something along the lines of

諦めることなく、

Although that also (I believe) has a bit more punch to it.

Back to the issue, though, I'm pretty sure a ずに followed by an appropriate conjugation at the end of the sentence would be as polite as you need to be. If I remember (my mind is a bit spotty, so I probably won't), I'll ask someone tomorrow.
1
16 years ago
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shirokitsune
Level: 1785

While reading a children's novel I came across just ず with no に。It has the phrase 聞かず、does the comma replace the に in this writing or am I looking at some other grammar point that I am just unaware of.

3
11 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346

Just looked it up - they are slightly different.


ずに meanings "without", as in, A ずに B = "doing B without doing A"

Here's an example:

切手を貼らずに手紙を出してしまった。 Shows you not doing something you'd normally do with the following action.


途中であきらめず、最後まで頑張ってください。

Not quite the same - in this case, it is "don't do A, do B"


出発前日まで予約が取れず、心配させられました。

In this case, it shows a tight link between the lack of A and it causing B. In this case, "I didn't/couldn't do A, so B"


These examples, by the way, are from the EXCELLENT 日本語文型辞典. It's made for teachers of Japanese, or high level students. Very, very good explanations (although it's 100% Japanese)


http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E8%AA%9...

16
11 years ago
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shirokitsune
Level: 1785

Thanks for the help. I think once I get a little stronger in Japanese I will pick up that book.

0
11 years ago
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Kiraraxa
Level: 331

Hey everybody:-) quick question - I saw in one of the examples for 代わる that this form is used without the に - so, ...いつもと代わらず健康... is this a mistake, a different grammar or maybe an exception? Thank you:-)kao_yoroshiku.png

0
5 years ago
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マイコー
Level: 346

I did a quick search, and came up with this note: 大ざっぱにいえば、 「ずに」=「ないで」、 「ず」=「なくて」です。

So, ずに and ず can both be used depending on the structure of the sentence.

More info: https://detail.chiebukuro.yaho...

2
5 years ago
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compmyon
Level: 1433

The に is optional in this. More accurately, ず can stand in for either ないで or なくて.

1
2 years ago
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