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Forums - What grammar is verb-stem を verb-stem と する?

Top > 日本語を勉強しましょう / Let's study Japanese! > Anything About Japanese



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What’s the function of repeating the verb stem this way? Does this structure have a name and a reference page anywhere?


Example: だとえる。 すにはまだまだとをせなければならぬ。 (れんきんどうし)のしみをしみとするのはこれがである。 ※ (きたはら)(はくしゅう)『

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11 days ago
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Anonymous123
Level: 1395

My interpretation, which has a good chance of being wrong, is:

I don't think しみ is a verb stem here. I think it's just the noun 苦しみ (nominalized from 苦しい )

I think the purpose of しみをしみとするのはこれがである is to emphasize the use of word choice. Something along the lines of: That's why "anguish" is used in the "Anguish of ".

Kind of like saying that why the "Big Leagues" are called the "BIG" leagues


The only grammar I can find here which sort of matches this pattern is this: を~として/を~とする

https://new.renshuu.org/gramma...

Same underlying premise (saying how something is called/treated/regarded as), but it's normally used to call one thing something else.

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11 days ago
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Thank you, this analysis makes sense. The link to the grammar page for を~として/を~とする doesn’t work for me, maybe because I’m on a different server, but I was able to find it from the title.

So, if the Anguish of the Alchemist is a set phrase like the Big Leagues, what does it mean, and what could it have to do with poetry? I get that polishing a phrase is supposed to be like transmuting stone into gold, but I don’t follow the suffering bit.

3
10 days ago
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So I asked ChatGPT.

List the top ten works by Japanese authors associated with the phrase しみ

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GPT-4o mini

Here are ten notable works by Japanese authors that are associated with themes of alchemy, transformation, and the struggles of those who pursue knowledge and power, which can relate to the phrase "しみ" (The Suffering of the Alchemist):

  1. Fullmetal Alchemist () by Hiromu Arakawa - This manga and its anime adaptations explore the moral dilemmas and suffering of alchemists who seek to restore what they have lost.
  2. The Alchemist Who Survived Now Dreams of a Quiet City Life (ったかなでのんびりらすことにした) by Usata Nonohara - A light novel series that follows an alchemist who, after surviving a dangerous past, seeks a peaceful life, reflecting on the burdens of their former life.
  3. The Book of the Alchemist () by Kōji Suzuki - A novel that delves into the philosophical and mystical aspects of alchemy, exploring the inner struggles of its characters.
  4. The Twelve Kingdoms () by Fuyumi Ono - While not strictly about alchemy, this fantasy series includes themes of transformation and the burdens of power.
  5. The Tale of the Heike () - This classic work of Japanese literature includes themes of transformation and the suffering that comes with the pursuit of power and glory.
  6. Mushishi () by Yuki Urushibara - A manga series that explores the relationship between humans and nature, with themes of transformation and the consequences of seeking knowledge.
  7. The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (ハルヒの) by Nagaru Tanigawa - This light novel series includes elements of transformation and the struggles of characters who deal with extraordinary powers.
  8. The Alchemist's Daughter () by Kōsuke Yamamoto - A novel that explores the life of an alchemist's daughter and the challenges she faces in a world of magic and science.
  9. The Witch's Dance () by Kōji Suzuki - A story that intertwines themes of alchemy and the struggles of those who seek to harness magical powers.
  10. The Labyrinth of Grisaia (グリザイアの) by Frontwing - A visual novel that includes themes of transformation and the psychological struggles of its characters, some of whom have backgrounds in alchemy.

These works reflect various aspects of alchemy and the associated struggles, often exploring deeper philosophical and moral questions.


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10 days ago
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Anonymous123
Level: 1395

I don't think that the "Anguish of the Alchemist" is a set phrase. But, it does seem to be a concept that the author believes the reader will be familiar with.


My guess, is it is referring to this:

https://aozorashoin.com/title/...

which is a Japanese translation of this:

"The Alchemist" by Aloysius Bertrand, from the Collection: "Gaspard of the Night"

https://www.poetryintranslatio...

The original is in French


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10 days ago
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ChatGPT suggested the same thing, which was why I restricted it to Japanese authors. Certainly, Gaspard de la Nuit seems to have been a landmark in French literature, although Kline’s translation leaves much to be desired. But this little three stanza poem? It doesn’t strike me as something that would make a major contribution to the public imagination.

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10 days ago
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