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Forums - Use transitive/intransitive grammar tag for more ambitransitive verbs

Top > renshuu.org > Feature Requests/Improvements



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Funtore
Level: 82

I recently noticed that some verbs in the dictionary are marked as transitive/intransitive, like 増す and 張る, which is useful, but verbs like 開く(ひらく) and 吹く are marked as only transitive even though they can also be used intransitively (く vs トランペットをく). There are probably more.

Is there a reason for this? Could this verbs be marked as transitive/intrasitive too? Do we need a list of ambitransitive verbs? Or is it preferable to mark them with just one of the two uses if the other one is rarely used?



0
7 months ago
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マイコー
Level: 302

renshuu's dictionary is based on jmdict (a publicly available Japanese dictionary), so while not *all* fields from jmdict are always updated into renshuu, this is where the base information comes from.

I am pretty backlogged with a number of things on renshuu, but I will look into doing a one-time pass against the jmdict data to make sure the trans/instrans markers are accurate. I appreciate the heads up!

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7 months ago
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Funtore
Level: 82

I've checked jisho.org, which should be based on jmdict too from what I can gather, and I've probably understood what is going on.

jisho has a transitiveness marker for every distinct use/meaning of a verb.

For instance, 張る is used transitively for jisho's meaning 1, and can be used ambitransively for meaning 2.

吹く on the other hand does not have a single ambitransitive distinct use; meaning 1 is intransitive and the rest are (mostly) transitive.

増す has just one use, and that is either transitive/intrasitive.

So I guess that if at least a single use of a verb is marked as ambitransitive, renshuu will likely mark it like that overall. If a verb has distinct uses for which is either transitive or intrasitive, but not ambitransitive, renshuu will probably pick the one with more instances as an overall marker (for example く has 2 intransitive uses and 7 transitive ones, so it's marked as transitive overall).

That being the case, I'd like to ask for a different kind of improvement, I think it would be useful to add a marker for each use (basically like jisho) instead of one overall marker, which evidently causes confusion.

So as an example:

1. [intransitive] to blow (of the wind)

2. [transitive] to blow (one's breath), etc


I don't know how much work is required for this, but I guess it should be feasible, once you have time.

PS: I also noticed that 気づく doesn't have a marker at all, I don't know why (it should be intransitive)

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7 months ago
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マイコー
Level: 302

*a lot*, unfortunately, but it's something I'd like to do in the future.

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7 months ago
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