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Forums - What do you think i should do with my growing Level9 review?

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Hello all,

So i have my schedules set up in such a way that i can study different topics at will and then they all feed back into 1 main review schedule.. (for example: i have a jlpt, common core, vocab mined from a book, etc > main review) Over time I've accumulated a bunch of level 9 words.. but I'm starting to worry because as i add words and my review grows, i have started slowing down in my addition of new material..

how do i explain this.. at level 9 the turn over for review is 240 days by default.. if i had say 240 words in the schedule, even with perfect quizzing that becomes 1 word a day for review indefinitely.. and idk about you guys but my quizzing accuracy is not 100%.. as my level 9 vocab has eclipsed that number 3-4 fold and growing, I'm starting to have a minimum of 40-50 guaranteed words a day (obviously including all the review for levels 1-8).. which takes time... i also have kanji, grammar, and sentence schedules to deal with that this problem has started compounding with... my morning hour of core studies is slowly becoming endless review?

so... what do?

do i start dropping stuff out of my studies? or change level 9 to something ridiculous like 1000 days? what have you all done to mitigate this and get back to studying new stuff?

3
12 days ago
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ロウ (Row)
Level: 244

Well, if your reviews are building up, it's probably time to take a break from learning new terms. If you're not learning new ones, and they're still building up, then that would mean you're getting a lot of questions wrong (like, more than half) Either way, don't learn any new terms and work on reviewing the ones you have, they will go down eventually, even if you're getting half of them wrong, I promise.


It might seem like an issue to stop learning new terms, but learning new ones and getting rid of old ones is a disastrous path to take. You'll never get anywhere. It's more important to focus on mastering the vocabulary you already learned than learning new vocabulary in that you're never going to master

I hope that makes sense. The default mastery level review spacing is supposed to make it so reviews go down eventually, not up. If they're increasing too fast then you're probably doing something wrong

10
12 days ago
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Renshuu tries to accommodate your goals, so maybe think about exactly what you want to accomplish and in what timeframe. If you want to prioritize new vocabulary, set a goal for the number of new terms you want to learn each day and make sure you finish them. Use your remaining time for review. It’s okay if you don’t get to everything. It will still be there the next day.

4
12 days ago
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Level: 344

I can recommend a few ways to approach the dilemma:

1. Focus on new terms and don't fret about completing 100% of your daily reviews.

2. Reduce the number of new terms, or stop learning new terms altogether and focus solely on reviewing until the mastery level is high enough.

3. Temporary freeze some schedules and focus on reviewing one schedule at a time while rotating them out regularly.

4. Change the number of new terms in each lesson and/or the time you learn them. (If you're busy every day but Saturday, consider learning all of your new terms on Saturday and reviewing them on the weekdays, etc.)

2
12 days ago
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Hey guys, Thanks for commenting.. but i feel like maybe the core of my concerns were missed.. and maybe that's because I'm missing some information.. nothing happens after level 9 right? my terms don't sunset or anything like that? they just stay at level 9 forever... is that correct or no?

my concern comes from the growing level 9 tier.. (the final tier).. you still have to review level 9 terms (as far as im aware) which means they accumulate as permanent study.. when you get 1 right you'll review it every 240 days, if you get one wrong you'll review it again the next day or in a couple days whatever it is... which adds up to about 4 guaranteed review terms (kanji, grammar, sentences) for every 1000 t9s...

so now let me address some of your points here..

"Well, if your reviews are building up, it's probably time to take a break from learning new terms. If you're not learning new ones, and they're still building up, then that would mean you're getting a lot of questions wrong (like, more than half)"

definitely have a good grasp on my statistics, things are progressing well in terms of raising my levels and the accuracy of my quizzes.. the growth in review comes from new terms..


"I hope that makes sense. The default mastery level review spacing is supposed to make it so reviews go down eventually, not up. If they're increasing too fast then you're probably doing something wrong"


again only to a certain point.. again my concern is the growing T9s




"Renshuu tries to accommodate your goals, so maybe think about exactly what you want to accomplish and in what timeframe. If you want to prioritize new vocabulary, set a goal for the number of new terms you want to learn each day and make sure you finish them. Use your remaining time for review. It’s okay if you don’t get to everything. It will still be there the next day."

but more terms get added to review the next day, I've done this where I've missed days or been busy or whatever and i come back to an overwhelming avalanche of review.. this also affects the efficacy of the spaced review.. not a fan of missing..


I can recommend a few ways to approach the dilemma:

"1. Focus on new terms and don't fret about completing 100% of your daily reviews."

again, as above, review avalanche..


"2. Reduce the number of new terms, or stop learning new terms altogether and focus solely on reviewing until the mastery level is high enough."


high enough for what though? this is why i feel like im missing something, they just add up at T9 do they not?


"3. Temporary freeze some schedules and focus on reviewing one schedule at a time while rotating them out regularly."


i definitely rotate the learning, but i need to keep up the review to keep my grasp on the vocab no?


"4. Change the number of new terms in each lesson and/or the time you learn them. (If you're busy every day but Saturday, consider learning all of your new terms on Saturday and reviewing them on the weekdays, etc.)"


i study every day, i have a block of 1 hour dedicated to my core studies.. i learn new when i finish my review early.. I've just slowed down heavily on my new stuff because of the review..

Maybe my question should be this instead.. what happens AFTER level 9?

0
11 days ago
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Level: 344

You can reset the mastery levels to make them available for review again, if that's what you want to do. You can go to Advanced Search > Filter by "My Words. Tap the "Add Filter" at the top, filter by 90%-100% mastery, and you should now see all the level 9 terms. (Screenshot added for clarification.) Under "Actions," you can change the Mastery Level of the terms to something else.

Also, as far as I'm aware, automatic quizzing seems to stop after level 9 because Renshuu assumes you have mastered the term. You may see it once a year or so to ensure you've actually retained the info. (I can't confirm this, though.)


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11 days ago
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”You can reset the mastery levels to make them available for review again, if that's what you want to do. You can go to Advanced Search > Filter by "My Words. Tap the "Add Filter" at the top, filter by 90%-100% mastery, and you should now see all the level 9 terms. (Screenshot added for clarification.) Under "Actions," you can change the Mastery Level of the terms to something else.”

yea i worry about the growing review, i don't want to review more haha


"Also, as far as I'm aware, automatic quizzing seems to stop after level 9 because Renshuu assumes you have mastered the term. You may see it once a year or so to ensure you've actually retained the info. (I can't confirm this, though.)"

so what your saying is ill still see it every 240 days, as per the default srs review? or there's like a tier after level 9 that the words like "graduate" to and i stop reviewing them after that??



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11 days ago
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ロウ (Row)
Level: 244

No, terms always review, even if you've "mastered" them. This is because, unless you're using/seeing those words outside of Renshuu regularly, you will never truly master a word to where you will never forget it. Of course, assuming you're meaning to use Japanese someday, you won't use Renshuu forever, and you'll switch to speaking/consuming Japanese and you will become fluent, and all of those words will become part of your memory forever, like words in your native language. But until then, it's probably best to review them at some point.


Mathematically, your reviews should not be getting bigger from level 9 terms. Like I said before, it's the new terms, the ones you have to review often, that are tipping the scale. Even if you have 1000 level 9 terms, that would only be 1-10 or so a day, which shouldn't be a big deal, unless you're... well... extremely lazy How a normal schedule would work, is, eventually you would learn all of the words there are in the schedule, and then eventually they would all get to level 9, and you won't have to review that schedule hardly at all. Like I already said, I think you are learning too many terms at once.


My first concern, which I've already said, but I'll say it again, is that you are learning too many terms each day. I want you to look at it this way, each level 1 term is the same amount of review as 240 level 9 terms. Does that make sense? Every time you learn new terms, it will raise your reviews the next day more than anything else.


My second concern is that you are using either too many schedules or you are using the wrong schedules. There's nothing wrong with having a lot of schedules. It's entirely doable. BUT, if you are learning new terms in all of these schedules all the time, and they are schedules that each have a ton of vocabulary, then you can't learn a ton of new terms at once. I already said earlier that 1000 level 9 terms would only be about 1-10 reviews a day. Are these schedules thousands of words each? Are you learning terms for all of them every day? Like I said, even if you learn many terms each day, eventually the schedule should run out of new terms and the reviews will gradually go way down. But if you never finish the schedule....



1
11 days ago
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ロウ (Row)
Level: 244

Some Renshuu users don't worry about having too many reviews, they let their reviews build up to hundreds or thousands of reviews a day, and they just ignore 90% of them, only doing how many they can manage. Obviously, this affects the srs aspect of it, since srs depends on you doing your reviews at least somewhat consistently. It seems to me as if this is not the path you want to take, since you are concerned about having too many reviews.


I used to learn many terms a day, with the recommended Renshuu schedules. I built up many reviews, since I had it where my vocabulary, grammar, and kanji schedules were all connected so that I would learn them all at once. Eventually, I had to review so many kanji each day, that I disconnected it from the vocabulary and grammar schedules and set it to review only so that I could work on wearing down the daily reviews. N5 kanji has 80 kanji, and N4 has 166. So one day I hit the point where I only had to review 0-2 N5 kanji a day, and around 10 N4, even though I didn't get very many right. It took me a couple months, but since I've already finished N5 and N4, they should stay around there, and the N4 will go down if I eventually make fewer mistakes. This is the same with vocabulary, although I think we can all agree that vocabulary is easier and so I wouldn't go as slow.

2
11 days ago
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Anonymous123
Level: 1214

For some perspective:

They say N1 requires knowledge of ~10,000 vocab terms. So if you had all 10,000 at level 9:

10,000/240 ~= 42 terms per day.

So that's close to the upper limit of how bad it could reasonably get for terms at level 9.

Of course, you can remove terms from schedules, and even retire entire schedules. The mastery data on the terms won't be lost if you are worried about that.

There's a pinned post which talks about when a schedule is "finished" here: https://new.renshuu.org/forums...

2
10 days ago
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ツカレタくん
Level: 117

Can I be extremely unhelpful? That's a rhetorical question, I'm just going to be very unhelpful.

I've set the days in-between reviews at level 9 to fifteen, and I've been doing these reviews for more than a month now. I haven't burned out my brain yet. I'll probably adjust the settings again someday, but at the moment I have no life and thus nothing better to do. I also listen to audiobooks while doing reviews, and I listen to audiobooks at almost two times speed.

I'm sorry for bragging, I can be very annoying.

2
10 days ago
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SirEdgar
Level: 1290

I ended up setting the spacing for level 9 to 1800 days, i.e. 5 years, with level 8 being 270 days. The logic I applied here was that if I am able to retain the vector of an item after 270 days, I probably should be able to retain it after 5 years again - if not, it most probably wasn't a that important or widely used term to begin with. For the curious, here my complete setup of mastery level spacing:

I should add, that I do let renshuu keep track of each vector individually, i.e. if I get something right in the Kanji->Meaning department, this only raises the mastery level for that vector and leaves the one for listening or Meaning->Kana unchanged. This approach also means that I do see a term with Kanjis in it at least 5 times (the amount of vectors I study for a given term) before it completely graduated from one level to the next, which in turn also means that renshuu will on average still show me a given all level 9 term once a year for one of the involved vectors.

3
10 days ago
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Mathematically, your reviews should not be getting bigger from level 9 terms. Like I said before, it's the new terms, the ones you have to review often, that are tipping the scale. Even if you have 1000 level 9 terms, that would only be 1-10 or so a day, which shouldn't be a big deal, unless you're... well... extremely lazy

How a normal schedule would work, is, eventually you would learn all of the words there are in the schedule, and then eventually they would all get to level 9, and you won't have to review that schedule hardly at all. Like I already said, I think you are learning too many terms at once.


Sorry, but i just don't think were on the same page here..

I'm not saying that my reviews are growing because of the level 9s.. yes I'm aware of how the "new" terms are the bulk of the study... your comments are extremely focused on the fact that I'm supposedly learning too many terms but I'm afraid you're missing the point of my post because in reality I'm only able to drip feed myself 1 term a day and a grammar or sentence exercise like once a week.. and it has nothing to do with my quizzing accuracy..

its the sheer build up of permanent volume that is the focus of my concern.. you're saying that 1-10 permanent vocab a day isn't that bad but your view is narrow.. 1-10 permanent vocab, 1-10 permanent kanji, 1-10 permanent grammar, 1-10 permanent sentences, all add up to time... and this is JUST the level 9 studies.. and sure a couple of words or kanji can be pretty quick, no doubt.. but sentences and grammar are much slower.. so in a 1 hour study block, your time becomes 50 minutes, then 40 minutes, then 30 minutes.. etc etc.. thats all..

Trust me, i understand that studying the terms brings down the overall time spent per day per word.. i understand the srs system.. the post was just an ask to see what other were doing to combat the inevitable problem we all face here.. all i want is to keep up with my studies and not stagnate in an avalanche of review.. but i appreciate your reply none the less, thanks

For some perspective:

They say N1 requires knowledge of ~10,000 vocab terms. So if you had all 10,000 at level 9:

10,000/240 ~= 42 terms per day.

So that's close to the upper limit of how bad it could reasonably get for terms at level 9.

Of course, you can remove terms from schedules, and even retire entire schedules. The mastery data on the terms won't be lost if you are worried about that.

There's a pinned post which talks about when a schedule is "finished" here: https://new.renshuu.org/forums...

Correct if were just talking vocabulary.. 100%.. but with kanji, grammar, and sentences in the mix, it starts to add up.. and sure vocab and kanji are fairly quick, but reading and listening to grammar and sentences takes up a lot more of my time per exercise..

I ended up setting the spacing for level 9 to 1800 days, i.e. 5 years, with level 8 being 270 days. The logic I applied here was that if I am able to retain the vector of an item after 270 days, I probably should be able to retain it after 5 years again - if not, it most probably wasn't a that important or widely used term to begin with. For the curious, here my complete setup of mastery level spacing:

I should add, that I do let renshuu keep track of each vector individually, i.e. if I get something right in the Kanji->Meaning department, this only raises the mastery level for that vector and leaves the one for listening or Meaning->Kana unchanged. This approach also means that I do see a term with Kanjis in it at least 5 times (the amount of vectors I study for a given term) before it completely graduated from one level to the next, which in turn also means that renshuu will on average still show me a given all level 9 term once a year for one of the involved vectors.

yes! this is what I'm talking about.. so i was planning to do something similar (maybe not 5 years but maybe on scale with how many exercises are in the review to minimize time on them). Have you been here long enough to come back to any of the level 9s? how was your retention?

1
9 days ago
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ロウ (Row)
Level: 244
its the sheer build up of permanent volume that is the focus of my concern.. you're saying that 1-10 permanent vocab a day isn't that bad but your view is narrow.. 1-10 permanent vocab, 1-10 permanent kanji, 1-10 permanent grammar, 1-10 permanent sentences, all add up to time... and this is JUST the level 9 studies.. and sure a couple of words or kanji can be pretty quick, no doubt.. but sentences and grammar are much slower.. so in a 1 hour study block, your time becomes 50 minutes, then 40 minutes, then 30 minutes.. etc etc.. thats all..

No no no. Reviews. Reviews a day. Not to compare, but I often have a lot more than 10 reviews on my schedules, (which a have quite a few of), and I get it done in less than 20 minutes. You say this is a problem we all face - but that's the issue - it's not. I have literally never heard someone ask about this before. Either you are doing a terrible job explaining, or you are having some weird issue I don't know how to help you with

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9 days ago
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SirEdgar
Level: 1290

yes! this is what I'm talking about.. so i was planning to do something similar (maybe not 5 years but maybe on scale with how many exercises are in the review to minimize time on them). Have you been here long enough to come back to any of the level 9s? how was your retention?


Most I do retain just fine as these terms are then the simple, everyday kind of words that you just encounter everywhere or at least often enough. Those I don't retain rather turn out to be either less usedor items that I tend to mix up with others. Thanks to the SRS, those of course get nudged down some levels until I get a grip on those again - but I have to admit that for some of these terms I then also might actively decide to block/exclude them from further studying if I believe that the term is question is just too uncommon or specific in the usage that it is not relevant for me (i.e. any kind of vocab that is archaic or super specific for a context that I am unlikely to ever encounter based on my interests - the beauty of language after all is that should I ever do end up running into a person/text that mentions those specific words, I can still look that single word up or ask the person to explain what it is. I do not need to know 100% of the words, as I also do not know 100% of the words of my mother tongue and still am able to live my life just fine )

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8 days ago
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